HI all,

I ran into iRV2 a few days ago and have made my way to here due to the unusual needs I have for travel. Thank you, thank you, thank you for taking the time to put this together and contribute.

I posted on iRV2 that I needed to sleep 7, haul a my van and have a 8x8 shop area. (10,000# trailer) Full time for a while. I did get some blank stares, but eventually found this group. A class 8 seems to answer a lot of my problems wonderfully. I'm absolutely jazzed on the whole concept. In fact, I called a friend that runs a trucking company today and he has a '99 VN 610 that he is getting ready to trade-in. This is getting dangerous!

The details: I'm taking my business on the road and I'm tired of being without my family. 5 kids(4-13yrs). 1 wife (undisclosed)
The idea is popular with them and I'm trying to work the logistics. Since I have only been used to short term trips, this is going to be a learning experience to say the least.

I know from reading Larry (onezman) that these rigs can be run without a CDL. It may get a bit tricky with me as I will be using the shop for prototyping/fabrication and intend to write the whole setup off as business use (employ the kids and all). My initial impression is that I would have to go ahead and get the CDL. Two problems with that are that I would have to convince the wife to get one also, and I would then be subject to the liscensing and taxes that go with it. Am I missing something? For the duration of the adventure, this will be my primary residence if that makes any difference.
I also have no idea of a budget needed to feed and care for a rig such as this. Expected service? Set aside for repairs? Cost per mile to run with everything included? Mileage isn't hard to guess, but what about the other things that I may not be thinking about. My friend mentioned things like separators, pumps, leaks, and such as the reason for swapping out before 500k. Also mentioned that they like to be out of them before the warantee expires. How much risk am I taking putting such a truck into this service? Any feedback would be appreciated.
I'm hoping for a July time frame, so I would have to start without the rig until it could be built.
Warpath: you did a wonderful service by putting these sites together.

Thanks all
Bo

Bo -
Really not sure on the CDL issue, if it is a motorhome with living quarters (sleeping, refer, stove, ect.) normally you would not need a CDL. If you where to use it as a businees, that maybe a different story.

With regards to maintanence, unless you plan to pound out a 100,000 miles a year, it will be nothing like what a trucking company experiences. Basically when these trucks hit this stage they are now retired meaning low milage under 50,000 per year and maintenance is not nearly a issue. I am sure others have a better idea on this.

Good luck and keep us posted

Bill

2003 28' Show Hauler Motorhome on a 1995 FL 120 www.showhauler.com

Hi Bill
This should really be a PM but I don't know how to do it with this newsgroup, and in fact, others may want to see in anyway.

It sounds like it took you about 6 months from start to finish. Is that what I could expect?

From what I can glean from your posts, you have about 120k in it. I suspect that is without the initial truck.

For now, what I think that I want is a large slide, double couch setup. I am tempted to go out to 30'.

Like you, I want functional much more than pretty. Its going to get used.

I broke down in Lima a few weeks ago, I considered heading to Mentor for parts, sounds like your neck of the woods.

This is definitely an adventure. I hope I can pull it off.

I'll can the DMV and see if I can get anywhere with them concerning the CDL.

Thanks again
Mark

Mark you an your wife probably can read on the 8th grade level....correct?....The CDL manual is written on the 8th grade level....taking the test and study time will maybe take a full day...Other than that If you have a aquaintance to help you guys with identifying parts and guiding you through the mundane processes you can get this over in very little time....the physical and paperwork takes more time than anything else....geof

Bo:

May want to check out www.busconversions.com discussion forum. They have had a number of discussions about this topic. A search should help you.

chuck

The language below is copied from the Uniform Commercial Driver's License Act, as enacted in Washington (state) (RCW 46.25). The language and meaning will be the same across the US. What I see as your problem is the trailer you need to pull to do your business. The combined weight rating (GCWR) will be well over 26K, and given the business purpose of the trailer, may well end up making almost anything you use similar to what you describe into a "commercial vehicle".
Example: A 1 ton pickup, 11K GVW, with a 3 axle car trailer, GVW 16K; the combined total is 27K. It was used for pulling car parts, and the operator was convicted at trial of not having a CDL when required (I was slumming that day, covering for a Distrcit Court deputy). The wording here, and I think around the country, does not have a useful qualifier - "for hire", or words to that affect.
Where you have a problem would not be having a Class A RV based on a tractor, or even pulling a trailer (let's say you have your car and motorcycle in the trailer so you can use them when parked). I suspect where you would run the risk of a problem is the use of the trailer for a business purpose, or having a shop area in the RV for doing work (not sure which you mean from reading your description). Admittedly, if you didn't let anyone in, so the business portion was never seen, it would be hard to show that it is a commercial vehicle - it's just a nice RV.

(6) "Commercial motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle designed or used to transport passengers or property:

     (a) If the vehicle has a gross weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds;

     (b) If the vehicle is designed to transport sixteen or more passengers, including the driver;

     (c) If the vehicle is transporting hazardous materials and is required to be identified by a placard in accordance with 49 C.F.R. part 172, subpart F; or

     (d) If the vehicle is a school bus as defined in RCW 46.04.521 regardless of weight or size.

I went and looked at the definition of a motor home (46.04.305) and it is not clear how the overlap would be resolved, although in the early parts of 46.25, it is stated that inconsistencies would be resolved in a manner so that the commercial license law controls.
(Purpose -- Construction.
(1) The purpose of this chapter is to implement the federal Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 (CMVSA), Title XII, P.L. 99-570, and reduce or prevent commercial motor vehicle accidents, fatalities, and injuries by:

     (a) Permitting commercial drivers to hold only one license;

     (b) Disqualifying commercial drivers who have committed certain serious traffic violations, or other specified offenses;

     (c) Strengthening licensing and testing standards.

     (2) This chapter is a remedial law and shall be liberally construed to promote the public health, safety, and welfare. To the extent that this chapter conflicts with general driver licensing provisions, this chapter prevails. Where this chapter is silent, the general driver licensing provisions apply.)
Motor homes.
"Motor homes" means motor vehicles originally designed, reconstructed, or permanently altered to provide facilities for human habitation, which include lodging and cooking or sewage disposal, and is enclosed within a solid body shell with the vehicle, but excludes a camper or like unit constructed separately and affixed to a motor vehicle.
After reading these, I think that if it came to a real fight, you would need a CDL. However, I think that would be true of almost any combination vehicle capable of doing what you are describing - the combined purposes. The driver's license is not necessarily the big problem - it's the hassle and cost of registering the vehicle.

When and if you have an accident-What is your insurance company going to do?....Screw the courts-Hey fine me and be done with it....but the insurance company will weasel out of anything- anyway they can to keep from paying for any loss....yours or the other guys....consider the "Second Golden Rule"-"Always Cover Your Ass" Granted a CDL is more trouble than it's worth, but a reasonable person would take the necessary steps to be within the law and conditions of his insurance company agreement/contract....cuz fighting them is expensive time consuming and rarely do your break even.....geof

I realized this morning that my answer missed a critical consideration: if your state of residence registers the vehicle as an RV, that is dispositive. You don't need the CDL. While I appreciate the insurance issue that Geof raises, the court issue is not as simple as a fine - in Washington, and I think in most states, violations of the CDL laws are not fine only offenses, but crimes with potential jail time. And insurance companies are REALLY afraid of litigation that alleges bad faith - if you are properly covered, they are in a world of hurt if they screw with you. I've had a couple try. They didn't enjoy the experience. :-)

Gentlemen,

My OPINION concerning this matter is if one is not for hire, hauling others goods or passengers for compensation, one would not need a CDL if drivng a motorhome.

I have seen many motor coaches towing their own trailers that may contain their own property for business use. As far as I know, a CDL is not required for this type of use. All of these vehicles exceed 26K GCVW.

Then there are race car haulers hauling their own cars or parts that may be for sale elsewhere. They are carrying their own goods. They are not for hire and not being compensated directly for transporting their own materials. In such cases a CDL should not be required. OTOH, I am always over 26K when towing my travel trailer.

I might be found to be not in compliance concerning that particular law if someone wanted to get real technical about it. That has never happened to me or anyone I know of though.

Larry

Commercial Reg. in Calif.

In California, under Cal. Vehicle. Code Ann. § 260, the definition of a commercial vehicle includes any vehicle used for profit, and the ensuing regulations include both "for hire" and "not for hire", so equipping the trailer with a fabrication shop which would be used for profit would be a commercial vehicle in California and in most states I suspect. Therefore, IMHO boroko would be much safer paying the additional cost of commercial registration and including the costs as business expenses on his taxes. If the vehicle chosen is over the GVWR requirement set forth in his state then he should get a CDL as well. As Doug pointed out, the penalties may include jail time but even if jail time can be avoided, the cost of mounting a defense to any charges will far exceed the cost of commercial registration and a CDL.

Mike